Gandalf left Thorin after his first meeting without committing to help him to reclaim Erebor. Thorin was full of grandiose plans to attack Smaug in his lair; Gandalf was not in agreement. He decided to visit Bilbo in The Shire as Bilbo had impressed him 20 years ago with his yearning for adventure and exploration. Travelling through the Shire, he asked Bilbo's neighbours as to Bilbo's whereabouts. They were disapproving in their answers as they told him of Bilbo's eccentricity in terms of his befriending Elves and Dwarves. This was not acceptable Hobbit behaviour in their eyes. At the mention of dwarves, a plan gradually began to gel in Gandalf's mind. Perhaps Bilbo might join forces with Thorin in order to start a quest for Erebor. Gandalf had suspected Saruman of losing track of his original mission to free Middle Earth of the evil that was brewing. He felt a sense of urgency to attend the White Council which he hoped would distract attention from Erebor. If he could persuade Thorin and his dwarf company to form a mission with Bilbo to oust the greedy Smaug from the Lonely Mountain while the White Council distracted Sauron, his purposes would be served.
He therefore returned to Thorin to persuade him to consider the plan for a silent attack on the dragon by taking a hobbit as his secret weapon. Hobbits were stealthy, dwarves were not renowned for their silence. The challenge for Gandalf was to persuade Thorin to agree to his plan. Following are a few passages from JRR Tolkien's "Unfinished Tales" Ch: III of the 3rd Age
Gandalf explains that after their first meeting in Bree, Thorin and he had to pass through the Shire to get to the Halls in Ered Luin. This might set the scene a little ...
"...we actually passed through the Shire, though Thorin would not stop long enough for that to be useful. Indeed I think it was annoyance at his haughty disregard of the Hobbits that first put into my head the idea of entangling him with them. As far as he was concerned they were just food-growers who happened to work the fields on either side of the Dwarves' ancestral road to the Mountains" (p 429 "Unfinished Tales" J.R.R. Tolkien)
Unfinished Tales has an excellent chapter describing Gandalf's meetings with Thorin and his kinsfolk, Balin, Gloin and Fili who were all highly sceptical about joining forces with a Hobbit.
"Your own ideas are those of a King, Thorin Oakenshield; but your kingdom is gone. If it is to be restored, which I doubt, it must be from small beginnings. Far away from here , I wonder if you fully realise the strength of a great Dragon. But that is not all: there is a Shadow growing fast in the world far more terrible. They will help one another.
.... Open war would be quite useless; and anyway it is impossible for you to arrange it. You will have to try something simpler and yet bolder, indeed something desperate." (Gandalf. "Unfinished Tales" p 429-30. J. R. R. Tolkien).
Gandalf describes the most difficult part of the Quest was persuading Thorin to agree to his plan and he states that he argued with him "far into the night" of the "Unexpected Party"
"Listen to me Thorin Oakenshield!" I said. " If this hobbit goes with you, you will succeed. If not, you will fail." (Gandalf. "Unfinished Tales". J. R. R. Tolkien).
Thanks for this background. I haven't read 'The Unexpected Party'. I hope they fit this into the movie. It certainly would help set the stage for the adventure to come and also for the LOTR if PJ decides to explore more of what was happening in the White Council at this time even though - correct me if I'm wrong it doesn't feature in The Hobbit per se. It would provide a nice tie in with the LOTR trilogy. (Please forgive me if this is not correct - I'm just a Tolkien novice and unfortunately have a horrid memory. I can read books over and over again and still manage to be surprised. Apparently I owe this to too many anti-malarial pills - a now known side-effect - when I was living in Thailand and from my time in Africa...)
Posted by: Calexora | 04/01/2011 at 03:48 PM
Thanks for making it over here Calexora! The White Council isn't in The Hobbit book but given Cate Blanchett's casting along with others, I would imagine it will be in the movies to bridge them with LOTR. I wonder if Gandalf will be able to expand on his concerns about the Sauron/Smaug potential relationship and we see the meetings between Thorin and Gandalf prior to the Quest. I hope so:)
OT: Do you have a blog? I'd love to read about your experiences in Africa and Thailand!
Posted by: Mulubinba | 04/02/2011 at 12:27 AM
No, no blog, at least not yet. Those were a while back - early 90s. But I still cherish my time in Thailand, Cameroon not as much for a couple of serious reasons.
While in Thailand, I was living with a host family in a small village (with no phone - you had to take a 2-hr bus to get to a town that had a phone). And we lived right beside the Wat (Temple) and a primary school. The kids were fascinated with me, my blond hair, blue eyes and hair on my arms and I was fascinated with absolutely everything. I love Thailand and its people and culture. Anyways, perhaps in the future I'll get blogging. I suspect it might be something I do if I go back overseas. Always thinking about it.... And I have also some fab stories of my time in N.Ireland finishing my Master's thesis. God I miss travelling...But, I've been thinking of how best to celebrate my 40th and as soon as I have the all clear health-wise I'll be planning. I was actually thinking of going to your part of the woods - Australia and/or New Zealand. Not sure. Will keep you posted.
Posted by: Calexora | 04/02/2011 at 12:35 AM
I hope you get the all clear soon :). There is a lot to see over here - large distances, many climatic and topographical differences. History - Aboriginal culture goes back thousands of years (check out Kakadu rock paintings) but white settlement is only 200 years old. NZ has also amazing culture and scenery. I haven't been there yet - Europe always held out lures for me. I'm yet to explore parts of Australia but over the next couple of years I think I will be staying closer to home as we have family commitments and elderly relatives. (NZ is actually closer to us than Western Australia so we may head over at some point in time. OH wants to stay in Hobbiton but he won't get much of an opportunity while they are filming ...lol!).
Posted by: Mulubinba | 04/02/2011 at 11:13 AM